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2010-07-22 Nicholas Gonzalez MD Cancer Treatment and the Kelley Method: It History and Evolution

An Interview with Nicholas J. Gonzalez, M.D.

July 22, 2010 by Kirkham R. Hamilton, PA-C
© copyright 2010, Prescription 2000, Inc.
www.prescription2000.com

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KIRK HAMILTON: Hi, my name is Kirk Hamilton, your host of Staying Healthy Today, and our mission is simple: To provide you credible usable health information from interviews and our educational resources to help you Stay and Be Well in the busy modern world. Please take a few moments before or after listening to this interview to browse through the Prescription2000.com website, the home of Staying Healthy Today Radio, for our free educational services.

Today's show topic is "Cancer Treatment and the Kelley Method: Its History and Evolution." Our guest today is Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, a medical doctor in private practice in New York City, and along with his colleague Dr. Linda Isaacs, have been treating cancer for more than two decades using diet, nutritional supplements, enzyme therapy and detoxification.

Dr. Gonzalez was recently featured in Suzanne Sommer's book "Knockout." He was also on Larry King Live along with Ms. Suzanne Summers and other physician panelists discussing alternative approaches to cancer treatment. Dr. Gonzalez along with Dr. Isaacs has authored the book "The Trophoblasts and the Origins of Cancer," and most recently "One Man Alone: An Investigation of Nutrition, Cancer and William Donald Kelley."

So welcome Dr. Gonzalez and thank you so much for coming on the show today. I am sure your life has taken quite an accelerated turn with all the publicity, the good publicity, you've had over the last year being in Suzanne Sommer's book, being on Larry King Live and all the other venues that you've been on to promote your work. So congratulations and thank you so much for coming on the show.

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well, first thanks for having me back. It's always great to talk with you and yes our lives here in New York could not be busier which is great. It gives us the opportunity first to keep busy but also help patients.

KIRK HAMILTON: Well you know I wanted to start off with, I was going through some of the work or the press release, and there was a...for this book...and there was a very interesting first paragraph that I liked and it was called...it was something like this. "In 1971, President Nixon declared a "War on Cancer" and over the subsequent decades the best and the brightest researchers at the National Cancer Institute have spent billions of dollars. The result? According to recent publication by the American Cancer Society, "Although progress has been made...cancer still accounts for more deaths than heart disease in persons younger than 85 years of age (CA Cancer J Clin 2009:59:225-249). Direct medical costs of cancer in the U.S. in 2009 were estimated at 93.2 billion." And with that kind of inroad, in early 1970s what was this Dr. William Donald Kelley doing at that time?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Yeah, while Nixon was declaring war, Kelley was in Grapevine, Texas in a small office there basically doing great work with advanced cancer patients. He had been at that point treating patients for some seven or eight years with his nutritional program, was already getting great results. Certainly he was unheralded and held in great contempt by the conventional medical establishment as they were declaring their own war on cancer, that as you said has cost billions and billions of dollars and really had not led to much despite the great investment.

KIRK HAMILTON: Tell us the story of how you met Dr. Kelley.

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well it's kind of an odd story. It was just the way serendipity works in one's life. I was at Cornell Medical School here in Manhattan and I went to Cornell because it's affiliated with Sloan-Kettering. And I intended to spend the rest of my life at Sloan-Kettering in basic science research. I was fortunate that as a second year medical student, that the then president of Sloan-Kettering, Robert Goode, then the most published author in the history of medicine, had taken me into his group. I was kind of working under him and he was nurturing me along in my research career and I had my whole career planned out. I'd spend the rest of my life there in New York and Sloan. A friend of mine who was a journalist that I'd known in my previous life, I had been a journalist before going to medical school, had heard of Kelley. He was just coming off of that disastrous Steve McQueen episode, and she was thinking about doing a book about Kelley because he was on the front page of every newspaper and on major TV shows being attacked of course as a charlatan. And he happened to be in New York and he was extremely depressed because he was being viciously attacked even though McQueen had died some six, seven months earlier. And she asked if I would meet with him and give her my assessment of what I thought about Kelley, and I wasn't really too happy about doing that. I thought he was kind of a crazy guy. I didn't really know that much about him, but I don't think he should have been attacked the way he was, but I still didn't want to meet him but she pushed and I eventually agreed to do it. And we met here in New York and after about five minutes of meeting him I realized he was one smart guy. Yeah he was peculiar, and like a lot of geniuses eccentric, but I could tell right away he was very smart. And after that meeting my mentor, Dr. Goode, suggested I follow up and you know begin a kind of simple student project investigating Kelley's work. Dr. Goode thought it would be a really good experience and I'd learn a lot of medicine even if Kelley turned out to be just a charlatan. So the following day I actually flew down to Dallas with Kelley and what began as a simple student project almost as a lark after my second year of medical school actually developed into a major research effort in Dr. Goode's direction. It would take five years finally. That's how it started. It was just serendipity. Kelley happened to be in New York and a friend of mine happened to be interested in doing a book about him which she never wrote.

KIRK HAMILTON: So this "One Man Alone," this book, was it started way back in the late 1980s or....

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: That book is actually the culmination of my five year research study. I completed that in 1986. I began research study in 1981, summer of 1981 and you know I had to finish medical school, do my internship and it wasn't until I was a fellow in Dr. Goode's research group by that point he had moved to All Children's Hospital in Florida, a separate cancer research institute down there, that I had the time to really finish it and it was finished, the study was finished in 86 and that's when I spent a year writing this up as a book. We tried to get it published because it was a very serious monograph as you've seen. I know you've read it. But we couldn't get it published because this was the mid 1980s and at that point if you mentioned cancer and nutrition in the same sentence it was virtually a felony. No one was interested in the academic world, no one believed that nutrition could have any effect on cancer either in terms of prevention or treatment. So after spending two years trying to get it published we kind of gave up, but 24 years later we decided finally to get it out because there's so much interest in our work and we think it really is, you know, it was a good research study when I look back at it. It really was done very exhaustively.

KIRK HAMILTON: So how much tune-up did you have to do to get this book out? Was it pretty much done and you just fine tuned it a little bit?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: It was really finished in 1986, and what I did recently is I kind of rewrote it more stylistically. I added a lengthy introduction to bring it into 2010, but it's essentially the way it was 24 years ago when we first tried to get it published unsuccessfully.

KIRK HAMILTON: So let's get into what...who was Dr. Kelley? He was an orthodontist. Now how does an orthodontist end up being an alternative cancer specialist?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well desperation is the mother of invention. Kelley was a very, very successful orthodontist. I mean people would come from all over the Southwest to see him. He had developed a way of straightening teeth that didn't involve braces. It was what he called a mandibular equilibration appliance that you actually put underneath your tongue and pushed on the lower teeth and that would cause the skull bones to change their shape and their location and that would cause all the teeth to go into place, really quite remarkable. He has a patent for it. Only a couple of dentists still do it. It was so simple and easy of course other orthodontists hated it because it would take away their income but you know Kelley was very successful. Then he happened to get sick and he ended up with a diagnosis of advanced pancreatic cancer in 1963 and in those days they wouldn't even attempt to treat it. Now they attempt although they fail still. You know it's one of the most aggressive cancers there is. He had about eight weeks to live. It was never biopsied because this is the era before CAT scans and MRIs and he was so sick they didn't even want to risk surgery. And I spoke to his family and interviewed his doctors, which at the time I was doing my research investigation were still alive, and they said yeah, he truly was sick. Tumors in his lungs, his belly, tumor in his hip. He walked with a limp ever since that time because he had the tumor in his right hip. And he realized he had four young kids and that there's a chance if he died they could end up in an orphanage so he decided he couldn't die. He was already interested in nutrition so he began to apply what he knew in terms of his own situation, began experimenting with foods and supplements, and then discovered the work of John Beard from at that point 60 years earlier, the turn of the last century. Beard was the scientist at the University of Edinburgh who first suggested that pancreatic proteolytic protein digestive enzymes have an anticancer effect and would be useful in cancer therapy. Kelley again serendipitously just discovered Beard's old book from 1911, began taking large doses of enzymes, and then he started adding on detoxification routines like juice fasts, liver flushes and the infamous coffee enema and he got well. And very quickly the local doctors in town who knew Kelley, because he was very well known, he was one of the successful professionals in Grapevine, Texas which is a suburb of Dallas Fort Worth, they began sending their terminal cancer patients to Kelley very quietly because as a dentist he didn't have the legal right to treat cancer. And lo-and-behold a lot of them started getting better so very quickly his reputation spread from Dallas Fort Worth throughout Texas to the Southwest to eventually national. So that's how it started and eventually of course he wasn't doing orthodontics at all. He was just basically in America, probably the foremost alternative cancer therapist by 1970. You know there weren't a lot of people in those days who had the guts to treat cancer with nutrition and he did. He did it successfully.

KIRK HAMILTON: What are some of the basic tenants of his program? We talk about...you have a sympathetic and parasympathetic efficiency chart. You have a metabolic type. Can you explain those things?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Yeah. Kelley believed different people need different diets. That the diets he prescribed range from pure vegetarian raw foods, nuts and seeds to an Atkins type red meat diet. And a lot of people in the nutrition world both conventional and unconventional tend to think one diet suits all. You know, Atkins thought everyone was a meat eater, and Ornish and Pritikin who think and thought that everyone should be a vegetarian, Rabin from Stanford who thinks everyone should be on more of balanced diet. Kelley realized different people actually need different diets and he eventually developed ten different diets that literally range from pure vegetarian nuts and seeds, raw foods to red meat two or three times a day, 94 variations. And the prescription for the individualized diets depended on the relative efficiency of the autonomic nervous system. You know the autonomic nervous system, as the name implies, is that nervous system that controls all physiological functions, generally thought to be beyond conscious control such as respiration, cardiovascular function, digestion, secretion of enzymes, hormones, glandular function, at least the things we don't have to think about. It's done automatically through the autonomic nervous system and that's divided into two branches. Sympathetic and parasympathetic. And the sympathetic branch tends to stimulate certain systems like the respiratory system, the cardiovascular system, and suppress others. When the sympathetic system fires it turns off all digestion, it turns off peristalsis, the release of digestive enzymes from the pancreas, release of hydrochloric acid and pepsin from the stomach. That when the sympathetic system fires it basically turns down the liver, both its digestive component as well as the detoxification mechanisms. It's basically a stress system. What it does is, it breaks down protein and fats, shuts down digestion, conserves energy for the brain and for the muscles, so in a time of stress you can think fast or act fast. Now the parasympathetic system is more the work horse of the body. When that fires it stimulates the entire digestive system from the release of saliva in the mouth, to release of hydrochloric acid and pepsin in the stomach, the release of pancreatic enzymes, bile digestive juices, it stimulates peristalsis, the breakdown, absorption and utilization of nutrients, it stimulates the liver's detoxification system. It tends to slow down respiratory efficiencies, it tends to slow the pulse and lower blood pressure and opposition to the sympathetic system. That's basically the work horse of the body. You know the parasympathetic system is active at night when the body repairs from the day's damage. So the sympathetic and parasympathetic tend to work in opposition. The sympathetic system is the system that helps us get through the day. The parasympathetic system helps repair from damage. Kelley believed in certain people the sympathetic system is dominant and the parasympathetic system tends to be weak and all the organs stimulated by the sympathetic system like the lungs and the heart tend to be very highly developed. And the systems that are suppressed by the sympathetic system, like the entire digestive system, the associated organs like the pancreas and liver tend to be very inefficient.

KIRK HAMILTON: How does someone assess for that, or how do you assess for that?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well you can do it from clinical observation. I mean sympathetic dominants tend to have very distinctive personality. They tend to be very smart, very organized, they tend to be good leaders. They're very good with math, they tend to have lean body structure, they tend to have poor digestion, very good respiration, they tend toward a rapid pulse, they tend toward high blood pressure. They don't tend to need a lot of sleep because their stress system is always active. These are people that can sleep four or five hours a night and not sleep well and still wake up ready to take on the day and they may complain about it. They tend to do real well in the mornings. They don't do well in the evenings. They're in bed by 8 or 9 o'clock. Parasympathetics are the opposite. They tend to be phlegmatic. They tend to be very creative, but they're not as good with organization. They don't like to be leaders. They can be slower in terms of mathematical skills but very good creative. I always use Picasso or Hemingway as great examples of parasympathetic dominant. They tend to have great digestion, but they tend to get respiratory problems like asthma or bronchitis, pneumonia. They tend towards heart failure and low blood pressure which chronically can cause chronic fatigue. They tend to get depressed and fatigued. Sympathetic dominants tend to get agitated, irritable and angry. They can be hypomanic in the extreme. Parasympathetics tend toward depression. If they get too parasympathetic dominant they can have cataclysmic depression. Balanced people somewhere in between, they have good digestion, good respiration, good heart function, they're neither extreme. They can go either way, but they tend to be kind of just as the name implies, have a balanced autonomic system of all their systems, respiratory, cardiovascular, digestive, tend to be very, you know, efficient. You can tell from clinical...We also use blood work and hair tests to do it too.

KIRK HAMILTON: Okay. So most of this though, you have a good idea by the time you took a history on a patient, what they are?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Yeah. First, we treat a lot of cancer and the typical solid tumors, you know tumors of the breast, lung, stomach, pancreas, colon, liver, uterus, ovaries, prostate, they only occur in sympathetic dominants. Kelley made that proposition 40 years ago and we've followed. We think he is absolutely right. The immune cancers like leukemia, lymphoma, myeloma, and sarcomas, which are connective tissue cancers, and the connective tissue cancers relate to immune cancer, they occur in parasympathetic dominant. Balanced people rarely, they can, but they rarely get cancer. So just by the nature of the kind of disease a patient might have, you can immediately make an assessment of what their autonomic type would be. If someone walks in with breast or pancreatic cancer, you immediately know they're on the vegetarian sympathetic dominant side. If they come with leukemia, lymphoma, depression, you know they're parasympathetic dominant. So you can tell from clinical assessment. I've been doing this 23 years in practice, five years before working with Kelley. You just get to know. I mean there's no magic about it. It's just clinical experience which is always a good assessment. We also use objective parameters. We have that hair test that we use that we've adjusted for our own use and that tells us specifically what kind of type a person is metabolically. You can tell from blood work if you know how to read it. So these are things that you can assess from objective testing but just clinical assessment is terrific.

KIRK HAMILTON: Tell me about the five basic tenants - or the six actually, basic approaches that he uses.

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Yeah, I mean Kelley's program was...could be summarized in its broadest sense, three components an individualized diet, supplements with enzymes, detoxification routines, but they really can break that down into six components. The first thing which is the most important is to prescribe the appropriate diet. Again, the diets are quite variable so you really have to hit that right because you put the wrong diet into the wrong person you end up with trouble. You know food is fuel and our bodies are the most exquisite engines known on earth, but in order to function efficiently they need the right fuel, and the fuel is food and each of us needs a unique kind of diet. You put the wrong fuel in the wrong person all hell's gonna break loose. So you need the right diet. And the second thing is aggressive intensive nutritional support. We use the vitamins, minerals, trace elements, but sympathetic dominants need different supplements than parasympathetic dominants. For example, sympathetic dominants do really well with beta carotene, but not particularly well with vitamin A. They do well with most of the B vitamins like thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, PABA. They don't do well with B12, choline, inositol, pantothenic acid. They generally do quite well with high doses of C, high doses of D, but don't tolerate E too well. Do terribly with high doses of calcium, but thrive on large doses of magnesium, potassium. They do well with manganese and chromium, but not as well with selenium or zinc. And parasympathetics are the opposite. They don't do too well with B vitamins except B12, pantothenic acid, choline, inositol. Don't do well with large doses of C, don't do well with large doses of D, do great with large doses of E, they thrive on calcium. They don't do well with magnesium, potassium, manganese, chromium, but do great with zinc and selenium. Balanced people are somewhere in between. So we really adjust the supplement programs precisely for each patient based on their state of autonomic dominance.

Now as part of the nutritional program, we use protomorphogens which are really glandulars, and protomorphogen is the word Dr. Royal Lee used who was the first modern scientist to use glandular extracts in the treatment of illness. We use actually the whole gland now. We used sometimes the protomorphogens which are more extracts of the gland. And the theory is that like tends to help like. During the 1940s in conventional medical hospitals, they used to treat heart failure with raw beef heart, and it worked because they are growth factors and stimulants that work on like tissue. When you eat liver it tends to help the liver. When you eat raw heart it tends to help the heart. When you eat lung it helps the lung. And what the protomorphogens are, the glandular extracts of the glandular products, are just compounds made from the animal organ, the equivalent animal organs. So we don't label ours very, you know to be cagey. We call it what it is. We have a lung supplement that's actually made out of beef lung and a heart supplement made out of beef heart and they're very, very effective although the conventional medical world ignores them. They were actually used in the conventional medical world with great efficacy, you know they're still used to some extent. For example a lot of doctors still use Armour thyroid even in the conventional world which is basically just a glandular product of thyroid. So that's an example where even conventional doctors would use a glandular product. When you eat lots of digestive aids...Kelley's thesis that just about everybody in America has poor digestion because we grew up on such a poor diet and we don't produce enough hydrochloric acid/or pepsin in the stomach or pancreatic enzymes or bile salts in the liver. And you need those things for efficient digestion. And of course people that are very sick, Kelley said digestion always begins in the digestive system. They're going to have very inefficient digestion so we load them with, even our noncancer patients, digestive aids like hydrochloric acid, pepsin, pancreatic enzyme. That increases the efficient breakdown of food which enhances the absorption of nutrients. So if they have poor digestion you can put them on the best quality organic food and give them the right diet for their type but if they can't break it down and assimilate it, it's wasted. So we try to help ensure that they're going to digest their food efficiently and effectively by giving them these digestive aids. And for the cancer patient, of course we give them large doses of pancreatic enzymes as I mentioned based on Beard's work from 100 years ago.

The sixth component, one of the most important of course, is detoxification which probably elicits even today more scorn and derision and laughter among my orthodox colleagues than any other component of our program. And even I when first met Kelley in 1981 and he started talking about coffee enemas they didn't make a whole lot of sense to me because I was really a conventional type of medical student. Oddly enough, Kelley was always perplexed why that component of his therapy elicited such anger because all of these techniques, even though coffee enemas come right out of the conventional medical literature. For example, Kelley learned about coffee enemas, not from some alternative news letter but from the Merck Manual, which is a compendium of orthodox therapies. It comes out every year. When he was sick himself, he was looking for techniques to help him get better and he knew that as the tumor broke down his liver was getting overloaded with dead tumor waste. You know it's great to be able to break a tumor...break down a tumor...either with standard therapy like chemo or with pancreatic enzyme, but you kill a tumor you get all this dead tumor. Nothing is more toxic to the human body than dead tumor waste. Most of those wastes are processed and neutralized in the liver, but if you have a lot of cancer as Kelley did, and you break the tumor down quickly, the liver quickly gets overloaded, you can get quite sick. So Kelley was desperately searching for mechanisms to help the liver work better and he stumbled upon the coffee enema, again not in some alternative journal, but in the Merck Manual and he collected dozens of reports from the mainstream medical literature including the Journal of the American Medical Association, New England Journal, where doctors during the 1930s and 40s reported great success treating a variety of diseases even septic shock. I have a patient from the...I have a paper from the New England Journal from 1930 where a group of researchers reported successful treatment of multiple patients with shock which was a deadly problem then as well as today, using coffee enemas. And Kelley thought that the...when you take coffee orally it tends to suppress the liver. It stimulates the sympathetic nervous system. When you take it rectally as an enema the caffeine stimulates the parasympathetic nerves through a reflex feedback to the liver, and within seconds causes the liver to work more efficiently. Basically it seems that coffee enemas stimulate both phase one and phase two detoxification systems and just help the body get rid of all kinds of metabolic waste, but particularly in cancer patients, the results of breaking down a tumor, all those dead tumor waste that float around. So these techniques are absolutely essential because otherwise the patients get too sick, their livers and their kidneys will get overloaded, so they are just simple techniques to help the body mobilize, neutralize and excrete the toxic waste that result when the body repairs and when tumors die. So those are the basic six components.

KIRK HAMILTON: The 50 cases that you have in the book, "One Man Alone," those are Dr. Kelley's patients, correct?
DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Yes, they're all Kelley's patients.

KIRK HAMILTON: Now are you getting similar results as Dr. Kelley did, and how much different is your program versus Dr. Kelley's?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well it's basically the same model but of course we try to keep up with the latest nutritional literature. For example, coenzyme Q10 was not available as a supplement 40 years ago. Nobody knew anything about it. Now its available and we will use that selectively. There are supplements like resveratrol that weren't available 40 years ago, 30 years ago. They are available now and there's a lot of research to back the use. We use them again selectively. We use different doses with different types of people, but we try and keep up with the literature and adjust the program accordingly as we feel appropriate, but it's basically the same model. The individualized diet, the individualized supplement program with large doses of enzymes and detoxification routines. And our success rate, we would say is better than Kelley's because we have access to better quality supplements. One of Kelley's problems working 40 years ago, first he was a dentist, secondly there wasn't the sophistication in manufacturing techniques that exist today so you can get really good quality supplements. We've developed our own way to make enzymes that's really very effective and really has I think increased the success of the program. We tend to see sicker patients now. You know it's 40 years later, 30 years later. People are sicker, the environment's more polluted, the food supply deteriorated, so Kelley warned 40 years you know ago that each generation would get weaker and weaker and cancer would become more and more aggressive and we are getting patients calling us in their 20s with pancreatic cancer. I had a 22-year-old call our office just a couple of weeks ago with metastatic pancreatic cancer. I mean I never heard of pancreatic cancer occurring in someone that young. And then I got a call from an oncologist in Connecticut who treats children, who had a 12-year-old with pancreatic cancer, and it wasn't some rare genetic aberration, it was adult pancreatic cancer in a child. Twelve year-old kid! She had never seen a patient that young with pancreatic cancer nor had I. So what I've seen in my own professional lifetime is that the cancer, is first getting more aggressive and occurring in younger and younger patients. We have patients in their 20s with metastatic colon cancer. When I was in medical school in the 80s we were taught that was an old person's disease. Pancreatic cancer was an old person's disease. Not any more. So even in my lifetime I've seen a change in the nature and aggressiveness of cancer and the fact that it's occurring in a more aggressive form in a younger and younger age in people, so we are seeing more sicker patients so we have to be more aggressive than Kelley was. Kelley tells patients, "You know in a couple of years you will be well." We tell patients, "You're in for a long haul. It's going to be two to four years to get things stabilized." I mean it starts working day one but just people are sicker. Also a lot of the patients we've seen have had very aggressive chemo. Back in Kelley's day, you know there weren't that many chemo drugs. Now there are dozens and dozens of chemo drugs and all kinds of targeted therapies and hormone blockers for prostate and breast cancer. These things didn't exist 40 years ago. So we tend to see patients who have been heavily pretreated whereas Kelley would tend to see patients who didn't have a whole lot of therapy and even if they had chemo it would be like one or two drugs. We have patients who have had 10 or 12 different drugs before they fail and then start looking at...

KIRK HAMILTON: What kind of patient takes on your regimen because it's obviously pretty intense, correct? I mean, can everybody do it?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: It is. There's no question. Well you know the general consensus among conventional doctors is people who seek out alternatives are kind of not very bright and are uneducated. Of course Eisenberg in the early 90s from Harvard did a study of people who seek out alternative therapies and found they tend to be highly educated and smarter than the average patient and that's what we find. We tend to have a very smart bunch of patients and yes they have to be motivated. This is not "Oh dear, I'll take care of you. I'm the doctor. Just stick out your arm, watch TV and eat ice cream." Patients really have to do the work. I mean we prescribe the therapy but they do it at home day by day, hour by hour. I mean they have to take enzymes through the day and they have to do it. I'm not doing it for them. This isn't intravenous therapy in a hospital where you just play dumb and the doctor takes over. So it takes a patient who's motivated, who thinks independently, doesn't walk like a "sheep to the slaughter", who questions doctors, who reads, who looks for other options. You know a lot of patients don't. They just do whatever the doctor tells them to do and often with disastrous results. So these are... my patients tend to be very independent, very educated, very smart people, very motivated. They all you know are motivated or they wouldn't be in my office.

KIRK HAMILTON: You'd said something before when I interviewed you and I got a little confused. So the metabolic type directly relates to what kind of nutrients you take. Now if modern medicine has increased its nutritional knowledge, aren't you "learning on the fly" what works for the metabolic type? For example, coenzyme Q10?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well...

KIRK HAMILTON: Where did you get that it works for a particular metabolic type versus another metabolic type?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Well Kelley had worked all...by the time I met Kelley he had very sophisticated nutritional protocols for all the different metabolic types and he had worked out the effect of each nutrient on the autonomic nervous system. You know we all know what nutrients do, the antioxidants, you know vitamin C helps the connective tissue, vitamin D builds bones and helps immune function. We know those things. But there is an extraordinary amount of literature discussing each nutrient, its effect on the autonomic nervous system, it's hidden away often in obscure journals. For example, magnesium. It's been known since the 1930s that it blocks sympathetic outflow and that potassium stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system. Calcium stimulates the sympathetic nervous system. That was reported again like 70 years ago. It's in the literature. I know you are a master of the literature. All this stuff is in the scientific literature, and Kelley got it from two places. First, it's clinical observations because he was a great experimenter. He would try individual supplements on his patients and see their response, but he also went back to the medical literature and even by the 1970s there was a lot of medical literature discussing the use of individual nutrients to adjust and manipulate the autonomic nervous system. Royal Lee, who I mentioned earlier, developed protomorphogens. He actually had gotten very interested in how nutrients affect the autonomic nervous system. Francis Pottenger, Sr. wrote a book "Symptoms of Visceral Disease" which was a text on autonomic physiology in which he discusses the effect of certain nutrients, particularly minerals like calcium, magnesium, potassium, on autonomic functions. So a lot of this is in the literature. Even today with newer nutrients like coenzyme, if you study their biochemistry and their molecular biology, you get a pretty good idea of how they're going to affect autonomic nervous system function. Like in high dose, coenzyme will stimulate the sympathetic system, in low dose it tends to be kind of neutral. So you know with our parasympathetics dominants we use larger doses. Sympathetic dominants, lower doses. So you can get a pretty good assessment from just the biochemistry because you know a lot of the biochemistry is very sophisticated now. And if you think in terms of the autonomic model you can fit nutrients into where you would suspect it would fit. And you know you try it on some patients with a new nutrient and see how they respond and then you can assess it.

KIRK HAMILTON: Is there any correlation between blood type and your metabolic types?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Um, I'm not a big fan of the blood typing. You know I never like to criticize colleagues, but Kelley was aware of that. D'Adamo's father had first suggested this whole lectin thesis of blood typing and it just didn't hold true. I mean it's not...Kelley found it was an autonomic issue rather than a blood type issue and we have type O's that need to be on a vegetarian diet and we have type A's that need to be on a meat diet and they thrive on it and we don't find that the blood typing really...there's a certain correlation but it's not as high as is generally reported. We just don't find it that accurate. We don't use it. And also it originally had four different diets. We have ten basic diets and multiple variations. There are O's that are meat eaters, but there are also O's that are vegetarians so I've never found a correlation, nor did Kelley, and Kelley was discussing this 25 years ago because it's not a new thesis.

KIRK HAMILTON: Before we close, how would you like your book "One Man Alone" to be used? Who do you want it to get into the hands of? Physicians or ?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: I think anybody who has an interest in cancer medicine, the politics of medicine, should read it. I mean it really shows how Kelley to his credit, crazy as he may have been or crazy as people think he was, really had uncovered a great way to treat cancer. I mean the records speak for themselves. You know, there are 50 case reports in that book that really shows it. Forty, thirty years ago there was this dentist in Texas who was reversing the worst of cancers like metastatic lung, metastatic breast, pancreatic cancer. So I think anyone with an interest in cancer, medicine in general, alternative medicine, and the politics of medicine which played a role in keeping Kelley's theory and therapy out of the mainstream, how they work. So I think it's not written just for scientists, anybody can read it. It's a good book.

KIRK HAMILTON: How do people get ahold of you and your book?

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: We're in New York at our phone is (212) 213-3337. Our website which has a lot of information about the books and everything else is www.Dr-Gonzalez.com, so www.Dr-Gonzalez with a Z at the end, dot com. New Spring Press is the small publisher that's putting out the books and they're doing a great job getting them out and they have their own website, but you can link to that. You can get the books on Amazon. You can get it through our website.
KIRK HAMILTON: Alright. Well Dr. Gonzalez, thanks so much for being on the show today, and we'll be in touch as usual. And let me know when another book comes out. And I hope you don't get too busy.

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: I sure will. Thanks so much for having me on.
KIRK HAMILTON: Alright. You're welcome. Take care.

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: Okay. Bye-bye.

DR. NICHOLAS GONZALEZ: I want to thank again Dr. Gonzalez for coming on the show today and his excellent work and pioneering work in treating cancer with nutrition, enzyme therapy, detoxification, and really being a true scientist and clinician at the same time. And I want to thank you, the audience, for listening to this edition of Staying Health Today Radio. And until next time, Stay and Be Well.

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